A FACEBOOK DEBATE: About Israel’s wall / The-Ave.US

A FACEBOOK DEBATE: About Israel’s wall

A picture says a thousand words…

Ron Reisner I lived in El Paso and most people don’t realize that at one time it and Juarez, Mexico were one town. Amazing what a difference in economic systems can make.

Like · Reply · 1 · 15 hrs

Stephen Schwartz The image is a bit unfair. There are many affluent communities within th ed occupied territory and Israel does have poverty.

Joel Dewitt Stephen it’s just another hate the Jews of Israel

Michal Zavodivker Jericho is as nice as the pool pic…it’s in the PA. So is Ramalah. So are some of the joint Arab/Jewish settlemwnts cities.

Joel Dewitt Propaganda and ps look at the crooks the PA they buy missiles and screw their own people

Stephen Schwartz Yes but that makes the problem worse.

Efraim Shapiro Have you conveniently forgotten WHY the wall is there in first place? ???? Remember the cafe bombs, the bus bombs, the raids and murders BEFORE the wall was up?

Please. Cartoon is specious agitprop.

Stephen Schwartz The wall served Israel’s short term interest. It does not solve Israel’s long term interest of creating piece.

Joel Dewitt Cafe bombing does not help create peace for Anyone!

Efraim Shapiro Israel interest in self preservation! You must be old enough to remember all that’s happened since Oslo – so, based on your other posts, and this little tell, I’d say you’re a leftist blinded by your liberalism. If it were possible, I’d like to see YOU try to negotiate peace with a population rampant with rageful, murderous thugs! There is NO ONE TO TALK TO! If the latest spate of violence leaves any doubt about it, then you’re either an idiot or insane.

Knut Robert Knutsen I may not agree with building a wall but Israel would be fully within their right to do that.

If they hadn’t built almost all of it on the Palestinian side of the border. Including the “no-man’s land” zone on the Israeli side.

It would be like President Donald Trump building a wall between the US and Mexico on the southern shores of the Rio Grande. (i.e. the Mexican side).

It’s not nice.

Efraim Shapiro Nice?????

Any other country in the world with that kind of neighbor and the capability would have bombed them into oblivion years ago! Doubt me? Read a little world history going back only 30 years. The destruction, displacement and decimation wroug…See More

Stephen Schwartz Knut Robert Knutsen i agree that the wall was j usc0ytifued, but it is condescending to expect Israel to build this wall for the benefit of the people “on the other side.”

Knut Robert Knutsen How is it condescending to say that if someone wants a huge fence, they should build it on their side of the property line, not their neighbours?

Knut Robert Knutsen Efraim Shapiro I’m not sure exactly what you mean.

Stephen Schwartz Stephen Schwartz You live in an enclave of impossible safety and state funded affluence. Your country never paid a debt for Quisling or the Norwegian role in the Nazi effort to build an A bomb.

Today Germany, not Norway or the US, is the moral leade…See More

Like · Reply · 13 hrs

Knut Robert Knutsen What debt is owed for Quisling that wasn’t paid? He was a a puppet of the Nazi occupation and he was prosecuted and shot. Thousands of collaborators were prosecuted,

Large portions of the Post-War government were in prison camps or concentration camps during the war.

The Nazi effort to build an A-bomb was thwarted by Norwegian partisans blowing up the installation producing heavy water, along with a lot of Norwegian casualties.

Are we supposed to be held responsible for everything the Nazis did while occupying our country?

You want to criticize Norway fpr helping build A-Bombs, criticize our export of Heavy Water to Israel. Apparently that played a small part.

“Moral leader helping the Syrians”, Syrians have to pass through 9 or 10 EU countries to get to Norway. Under Schengen rules if any Syrian even makes it to Norway it’s because the EU countries shirked their legal responsibilities under the Schengen accord.

And the fact that Germany takes the leadership reins? how is that surprising? Do you really think Norway with its 5 million people, a country that isn’t even in the EU, would be elected to speak for the EU on foreign policy?

Is that what you think, Stephen?

Norwegians contribute hugely to global warming by selling oil and gas to others. We also sell hydroelectric power. Norway is entirely self sufficient with renewable energy, our “Gloabal Warming Contribution” consists of meeting the energy needs of others.

We pay roughly 6 dollars a gallon for gas while you pay 2, in order to keep consumption down. You really want to lecture us on this.

And yes, while hunts have diminished, some Norwegians still eat whale meat. So what? Is that the best you can do?

As for “comfort”? Ah. So comfort makes any moral argument invalid?

Exactly how uncomfortable are you right now, Stephen? smile emoticon

Stephen Schwartz You need a mirror.

I am very comfortable. less probably the you because the politics is more difficult here than it is your oh so wealthy country.

Nor am I interested in a tirade about how bad Norway is ..for one thing I do not feel that way. What I do note is that Norwegians “protest too much” theoir own sanctity and are all to willing to “preach unto others.” .

It is so easy to be Norwegian!

Knut Robert Knutsen Stephen Schwartz If that is your impression I must say that it seems to be very much contradicted by facts.

We have confronted and acknowledged the sins of our past, often reluctantly and often too late but we certainly don’t try to sell ourselves as “saintly”.We do try to use whatever wealth and security we have to help other countries. I’m sorry if that offends you, but it certainly doesn’t come from a belief in our own sanctity.It comes from a palatable awareness that whatever ills, whatever unrest plagues the world will sooner or later affect us.You exaggerate the way in which our wealth affects our policies.Saying “it’s easy to be Norwegian” is just a condescending way to invalidate any opinion I or any other Norwegian might offer on anything.

It’s ridiculous.

And it confuses the issues you’re defending.

Are you saying that Israel’s actions in building the wall are morally right or that they are immoral but necessary because of the extreme circumstances?

Because my “comfort” would surely only be relevant to the latter.

I am intrigued by this, as you seem to find that not even being occupied by Nazis who killed anyone who opposed them AND took tenfold retribution on top of that would exempt modern Norwegians from moral responsibility for what Nazis and their collaborators did in Norway during the war.

I am curious as to exactly what standards you’re applying. Could you please explain?

Stephen Schwartz I recently read a short, rather anti Norwegian, book by a German Jew. He talks of ‘passing” as a non Jew while visiting do gooder NGOs ,,, often German or Norwegiian on the West Bank. His stories ring tue with what I hear form Israeli friends.

Note I am more than willing to have an equal discussion about what Israel ought to do. But starting out without recognizing the very real existential threat to the Israelis, is not acceptable to me,

I owuld rather discuss how does one help the Israelis and ther Palestians find a path to peace.

Knut Robert Knutsen Well, Stephen, if my nationality means you refuse to acknowledge the validity of any opinion I might render, I guess we have nothing more to discuss.

Stephen Schwartz Knut Robert Knutsen I never said that.

Stephen Schwartz Perche No Pasta & Vinor does your nationality or mine put either of us sit in judgement or to preach to the Israelis or the Palestinians who actually are seeking peace.

Stephen Schwartz So here is a challenge. How can Norway use its money, its stature, and its ecuroty ot promote peace? Howw can the US do that? Why don;t we do more?

Will Builder It’s not Israeli land to start with so they have no right to build a wall.

Will Builder I suppose like anything else. It belongs to those warlike enough to keep it.

Stephen Schwartz If that were the case it would be Israeli. But things are more complex than that. My own opinion is that the West Bank is not a viable state in its own, Somehow ti should revert/unfy to Jordan with enough investments to turn the greater Palestine into the sort of viable economy and, hopefully, a true Islamic democracy. This would be a huge strike against Iran and ISIS! If only the GD Saudis would back up sauch an effort with a few oil bucks!

Knut Robert Knutsen So you don’t recognize the right of the Palestinian state to exist? smile emoticon

David Simmons Jordan=Palestine.

Michael Hood sad, intractable war. says little of the Palestinians, less of the Israelis

Mirel Goldenberg Mirel Goldenberg A good drawing with a wrong and dis-informative message: The Wall/s were not created to separate rich of poor, but to stop the Palestinian terror when Israelis are attacked daily by Muslim fanatics. If and when when the Palestinians will have a state, this walls (or similar) will be the borders as Israel has borders with Syria, Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon (where also the economic level is lower), So this drawing is demagogic and posting him a mistake.

Samuel Bellini Leite You dont need a drawing for that, here in brazil it is exactly like that. I have seen various such walls separating rich house groups from favelas.

Bob Apple Sure Israel has kept all the Middle East from building a higher quality of life that Israeli’s enjoy. That cartoon is about as honest as the fact it is a cartoon.

Shawn Pikka yep, those muslim rich oil king sure know how to live it up……

Efraim Shapiro Yes, the word is “occupation “, screamed 1000 times, but just as fallacious the last time as the first.

Shawn Pikka the very fact that their fighting over a desert waste land only show the god of Israel is the true god. and Islam is the religion of jealousy.

Dmitry V Vaysenberg the problem is not jews in their homeland , the problem is arab jew hatred . the problem is arab envy .http://www.freearabs.com/…/2170-jb-span-problem-jb-span…

Problem?Blame The Jews

The Arab wars with Israel have left the Middle East and North Africa’s public opinions bitter. Generations of…

FREEARABS.COM|BY FREE ARABS

Bob Apple It is not just obvious envy but outright hatred for anyone who is not of Islam and that attitude is espoused by muslim leaders and clerics by words to its faithful around the world.

Dmitry V Vaysenberg You are correct . i meant arab/muslim hatred.

Bob Apple Have you ever heard those prayers from the spires calling people to prayer. Yes, it is abject hatred.

Bruno Marchal The problem is the nazi of the middle-east, with clear program of extermination of jews, and anyone disagreeing with them, on the whole planet. The problem are the arabs and persians who sided with Germany during WW II. The problem is our collaboration with the most fanatical leaders due to our addiction to petrol.

Dmitry V Vaysenberg the problem is the nazi roots of this current version of muslim antisemitism .http://www.israelnationalnews.com/…/Article.aspx/14066…

Why Did so Many Wanted Nazis Convert to Islam?

ISRAELNATIONALNEWS.COM

Steve Owens Feel free to go live on the other side of the fence if you like.

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Shawn Pikka blaming other people for you problems in the end does nothing to help your life

Steve Owens Heh. I just realized that wasn’t a US Mexico Border fence. No wonder the US and Israel are such great allies. We seem to think alike.

Like · Reply · 12 mins

Shawn Pikka why make immigration laws if you not going to follow them?

Steve Owens Because every law is sacred to some bureaucrat whose budget depends upon the existence of said law.

Shawn Pikka suppossed to be the will of the people

Shawn Pikka New International Version

When the righteous thrive, the people rejoice; when the wicked rule, the people groan.

Dmitry V Vaysenberg Steve Owens demagoguery, laws are constrains that keep human society from becoming chaotic savage hoard.

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Posted 27 Feb 2016 by theaveeditor in Israel/Palestine, Misc.

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