FACEBOOK: Is Torture Justified?

Mirel Goldenberg Stephen Schwartz. How you obtain information from a detained fanatic terrorist? How you inquire him if you know that he is a “ticking bomb”, that he has knowledge that a terror attack is prepared? How you know the answer to the when, the where and the See More

  • Mirel Goldenberg People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
    George Orwell
  • Stephen Schwartz Mirel Goldenberg I am not against use of torture but I an against its use by sadists… Laws need some flexibility to distinguish between the good leader and the bad.
  • Stephen Schwartz Mirel Goldenberg remember too that Arafat justified terrorism by the same criteria Cheney uses to justify torture.
  • Mirel Goldenberg I’m against torture when is not giving results; however if someone has to choose between the lives of Americans and torture, the answer is simple. What I hate are the leaders that don’t take responsibilities and the people that want to sleep peaceablySee More
  • Patrick Chestnutt A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. No matter what kind of flag one flies. The US of A. Surely exemplify that point. By any means necessary we will justify our actions abroad and at home. Bet
  • Stephen Schwartz Mirel Goldenberg. I think you are criticizing what I call lace curtain liberals… These folks are nice but naive… But, the idiots who defend Bush tactics are worse…

    As I said…. We need to have bad people do good things but we need to stop our selves from be cumin. The bad guys.
  • Patrick Chestnutt You are either part of the solution or you become part of the problem . That is what our president inherited when he decided not to pursue criminal charges against the Bush Cheney crime syndicate and the Wall Street boys. They call that an accessory to the crime ‘ aiding and abetting. Bet
  • Mirel Goldenberg I think that first we have to agree that USA is a country in war; in the XX century USA participated in 21 wars and conflicts, two of them world wars; in the XXI century American army fought/ is fighting another 6 conflicts/wars (Afghanistan, Libya, IrSee More
  • Bro Benjamin Shabazz There is no excuse for torture period
  • Stephen Schwartz Bri Bro Benjamin Shabazz I doubt you would feel that way IF you believed that torture of a slave manager would free his property.
  • Stephen Schwartz Mirel Goldenberg the era of Pax Americana is ending… For Israel to survive m, if it is going to survive, it will need to replace the US with a coalition of the new world powers… The US will be one of those but the others.. China and India being theSee More
  • Bro Benjamin Shabazz Torture is low and depraved no matter how I may feel plus it’s against my religion
  • Mirel Goldenberg Of course. But not this was the question.
  • Bro Benjamin Shabazz Ok help me what was the question
  • Stephen Schwartz Bro Benjamin Shabazz I think Mirel is concerned that self serving American liberals will abandon Israel
  • Stephen Schwartz He is a very good guy but rightly concerned… With the crazies on the right and weak libs in the left.
    17 hrs · Like · 1
  • Stephen Schwartz I feel the same way bout a lot of how liberals conveniently abandon African American when the issues led elsewhere.
    17 hrs · Like · 1
  • Mirel Goldenberg I agree. The secondary question is if you agree that USA is in war, you’ll agree also that information on real time you’ll obtain by torture. You’ll agree also that the commanders-in-chief don’t want to know about the methods but they are pressing for results. same the public. Hypocrisy of the leaders ( of USA, France, Israel…and of any democratic country that is in war)
    11 hrs · Like · 1
  • Stephen Schwartz I think the real question about torture and abut assasination and drones, is do they work? The testimoney about water boarding was overwhelming that ti did not work. If that is true, then why do it?

    There is a bigger issue in regard to ISIS and Yeme
    See More
  • Kalle Last “fun” fact – torture is an awful way to gather information. People are willing to make up anything just to make it stop.
  • Chuck Lewandowski When time is a factor for getting information to save lives then do what it takes especially when your enemy has no concern for human life. These methods have had results and yes some have given false information but the alternative is to sit on your hands and say “pretty please” give me the information want.
    1 hr · Like · 1
  • Mirel Goldenberg If drones and tortures are bad? yes.If drones and tortures are giving results? yes. Thank god, I was never witness to torture. But I glimpsed operations and read about them where the army is sending the five-ten of the best soldiers over the sea in the night in order to bump a terrorist in the enemy town. If they were caught, another group will try to save them; if this second group will be engaged in action, another group of hundreds/ thousands of people with helicopters, tanks, armoured cars and ambulances would act. A such operation where the third group is engaged in combat, would cost many lives of our soldiers and of course the lives of many innocent civils. This was a long time ago; today a drone is blasting his target and many lives are saved. Do you want the return of your son ? Do you want to know where the terrorist put the bomb?
  • A psychological thriller centered around a black-ops interrogator and an FBI agent who press a suspect…
  • Kalle Last “These methods have had results”  [citation needed]

    I’d also like to know what sort of terrorist acts have been prevented thanks to torturing people.
  • Mirel Goldenberg You’ll never know. People are publishing this after 50 years and still are liable to prosecution and to the chorus of people that would condemn those actions. ”
    The French general Paul Aussaresses, whose cold admission of executions and torture during
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    The general was convicted for ‘complicity in justifying…
  • Mirel Goldenberg Aussaresses contends, in his book, that the French government insisted that the military in Algeria “liquidate the FLN as quickly as possible”.[4]
    Subsequently, historians debated whether or not this repression was government-backed or not. The French government has always claimed that it was not, but Aussaresses argues that the government insisted upon the harsh measures he took against Algerians – measures which included summary executions of many people, hours of torture of prisoners, and violent strike-breaking.
    Aussaresses was quite candid in his interview in Le Monde forty years later (May 3, 2001):
    “Concerning the use of torture, it was tolerated, if not recommended. François Mitterrand, the Minister for Justice, had, indeed, an emissary with Massu in judge Jean Bérard, who covered for us and who had complete knowledge of what went on in the night.”[3][5]
    Aussaresses justified the use of torture by saying how shocked he was by the FLN’s massacre at the El Halia mine. He suggested that torture was a small but necessary evil that had to be used to defeat a much larger evil of terrorism. Aussaresses also claimed that he used these methods because it was a quick way to obtain information. He also defended its use by saying that the legal system was meant to deal with a peacetime France, not a counter insurgency war that the French army was faced with in Algeria.
    In an interview to Marie-Monique Robin, Aussaresses described the methods used, including the creation of death squads (escadrons de la mort), the term being created at this time.[6
    Paul Aussaresses (7 November 1918 – 3 December…
    everything works like it does in the movies. If you ask the right questions fiercely enough, you get the witness to confess. If you sufficiently scare the psychopathic martyr, they will tell you their secrets. The fact that it is coSee More

    21 hrs · Like · 2
  • Stephen Schwartz I agree. The frightening thing is that a theybelieve in a lot of magic. Id guns protect Cint Eastwood, I need one too. Reagan is the horriboe exma0lke of all this.
  • Mirel Goldenberg “The ticking bomb is a situation when a terrorist who admits to planting a weapon of mass destruction in a largely populated city but refuses to say where—a situation that has been discussed by philosophers, including Michael Walzer, Jean-Paul Sartre, See More
  • Mirel Goldenberg ….”The defendant kidnapped a cabdriver and held him for ransom; the cabdriver’s brother then contacted the police and arranged to meet the defendant to give him $4,000 in ransom money.74 At the arranged meeting in a parking lot, the defendant pulledSee More
  • Kalle Last Anyone dares to guess how many cases there might be when torture was used unsuccessfully? Bringing single examples of how it worked means nothing if we don’t know how often it doesn’t work.
  • Beth Osborne Having minutes to defuse a chemical weapon or save a kidnapping victim is an appealing story line for the movies. But in real life it is a massive failure to use intelligence and questioning correctly. The FBI has been quite successful at getting infoSee More
    4 hrs · Like · 1
  • Mirel Goldenberg Direct inquire of arrested suspects (when in the very rare cases of “ticking bombs” the torture is used) is of course only a very small and insignificant part of gathering information where analysis, informers, surveillance (from street cameras, interception of phone till satellites and drones) and espionage are giving the true bulk. Israel is basing his information in order to prevent terror attacks on informers, surveillance and analysis. To torture a terrorist you have first to arrest him and this has to be done in his hometown where anyone has machine guns and automatic rifles in their houses; much easier and cheaper in money, effort and human lives to terminate him from a plane or a drone. So even in Israel, on the first frontline against terror, torture is very scarce, not allowed by law and if someone will practice this in order to stop a ticking bomb, he will not tell to the Facebook puritans.

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  1. Kalle Last #

    Apparently my last comment in the FB thread didn’t get copied over 🙂


    “So nobody will tell you if and how torture is giving results”

    so, essentially, we are just supposed to take their word on it working?
    Looking at things like Prism I don’t generally like to be forced to believe in things blindly without any evidence.

  2. Roger Rabbit #