Edward Alan Clark
I agree to be outraged with other occupying powers <eg the Turks and Iranians, ed> and be logically consistent. The question of Gaza is a really difficult one, as you know, Steve. I feel for both the Israelis and Palestinians here. A key perspective I feel is to not forget that in the very earliest days of Hamas, Israel was its supporter, as a divide and conquer strategy against Fatah. I don’t see any easy solutions, am reluctant to suggest the standard liberal things like helping to create jobs in Gaza, reaching out to ‘moderates’ etc. The Palestinian leadership seems really broken and Netanyahu is very problematic.
Stephen Schwartz
I do not have a final answer but I do see policies that can help now.
I see no answer that does not begin with Israel maintaining a consistent two state stand, even in the face of violence from the other side. However, I do not see how the fragmented land left for Palestine can be economically viable.
I believe the real answer is to merge Palestine into Jordan, possibly under the name Palestine since “Jordan” is a Brit imposed idea that makes no sense. King Abdullah’s invasion of Palestine/Israel in 48 was based in a very reasonable belief that the Palestinians and the Jordanians are one people.
I also think the conflict might be solved by leadership.
The issue on both sides is leadership. Israel is a democracy and the pro peace movement is a majority. But the voters ultimately vote on security and the lack of peace leadership among Hamas and Fatah make the liberal argument a weak one. I do not see much change there until there is change on the Arab side.
The real opportunity is on the Arab side. I believe the changer could be an Arab who used Gandhi’s weapon. Such a figure could get huge followers among the Israelis, both Arab and Jew.
Ironically, non violent resistance was the major weapon used by Hillel 2000 years ago to resist the Romans. The result of that resistance is hard to hold forward as a model .. Christianity’s hatred of the Jews arose because of the Romans, and the Roman genocide is a terrible example for anyone wanting peace.
Steve makes two very important points: the commitment to a two state solution, Israel and Palestine and the commitment to non-violent resistance as a powerful form of political action (and love). I agree totally. But the merging of Palestine into Jordan is very problematic. Arafat and King Hussein as I recall did not get along especially well (note use of understatement to underscore my point). What would be the incentive for Jordan to agree to a merger? The United States perhaps could offer one, but again, without strong leadership and vision and unity by the Palestinians (who don’t for example agree on one vs. two states as a solution), this idea gets little traction. Thoughtful and worth sending to John Kerry, but I’m not hopeful. Over and over again, when I think about the issues in the Middle East, I’m left with a strong feeling of despair.
If I may put 2 cents in your conversation. My personal take is there is no solution. Of course , the Palestinians are the patsy. At any time they wish the Iranians can stir the pot and there you go a new round of violence. It will be that way until the (I think you call him Madhi.he will make a peace with Israel.
Ed
Do you know “Jordan” history? It has only one historical meaning and that is as the eastern part of the area called Palestine. The majority of its people consider themselves Palestinian, so much so that King Abdullah married a Palestinian woman.
Abdulah II was a Saud, gifted with this crown by Queenie. His local people, the Hashemites are a minority.
The way I would do this is to inlcude an economic plan as a central to the 2 state solution. That plan would establish an economic union between Palestine and Jordan. Outside support for the agreement would go to the economic union, promoting a viable economy. Single statehood would, I believe, follow.
Gaza is a very different issue. Logically it ought be part of Egypt. I am not sure they want it. HOWEVER, Egypt has offered to add Sinai land to Gaza .. reliving the population pressure. Further they agree to do this in band along the south side of Israel. Such a territory would shorten the distance needed to construct a tunnel connecting Gaza and the West Bank. The beauty of this is that Jordan/Palestine then has seaports on the gulf and on the Mediterranean! JOBS!
My final stone in this is to create a world class university in Ramllalah. There is no world class university in the ME or anywhere else in the Muslim world .. unless you consider Singapore. Rich Arabs and Persians would want to be affiliated with this place. Even the funding is not too scary, say $20 billion for endowment and facilities? Saudi money? Chinese money?